Comments on: The Casual Use of ‘Heretic’ http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic I write within the tension of spirituality and culture, politics and theology, existing and emerging forms of church, the Kingdom of God and Empire America, modern and postmodern thought, & the gritty drama that is my pilgrim story. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:58:21 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: novus•lumen | living in the tension of an emerging faith in Jesus and postmodern America » Blog Archive » WHO Decides Heresy; HOW do we decide Heresy? http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic/comment-page-1#comment-22737 novus•lumen | living in the tension of an emerging faith in Jesus and postmodern America » Blog Archive » WHO Decides Heresy; HOW do we decide Heresy? Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:36:08 +0000 http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic#comment-22737 [...] classmates took some issue with my assertion that we should not be so quick to break out the ‘H’ word when Africans give us different Christological categories, for instance, saying: “However, if [...] [...] classmates took some issue with my assertion that we should not be so quick to break out the ‘H’ word when Africans give us different Christological categories, for instance, saying: “However, if [...]

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic/comment-page-1#comment-17143 Jeremy Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:46:16 +0000 http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic#comment-17143 Chris: You're a gentleman and a scholar! So much so that I'm going to post your comment as a post for all the world to see :) Seriously, though, you gave much to think about...especially in relation to how using the word 'heretic' destroys the work of God in the Other. Thanks! -jeremy Chris:
You’re a gentleman and a scholar! So much so that I’m going to post your comment as a post for all the world to see :) Seriously, though, you gave much to think about…especially in relation to how using the word ‘heretic’ destroys the work of God in the Other.

Thanks!
-jeremy

]]> By: Chris http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic/comment-page-1#comment-17141 Chris Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:36:11 +0000 http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic#comment-17141 I think you're right Jeremy. It is a weighty word that is often emotionally charged and used negatively. It seems to be the next best thing to cussing for those who regard themselves as authorities on religion. But the argument here is going to be over what, exactly, the body of Christ should be divided over. Some would say Osteen is THAT dangerous and is, therefore, a heretic. Well? I used to go to Lakewood, and before that I spent my life growing up in other charismatic, non-denominational, word-of-faith churches. So I’d love to share my thoughts. I hope that’s ok. I have personally experienced the disastrous effects of only hearing a partial message and consequently being rather immature in my theology. One would think that I, of all people, would condemn these kinds of church environments (Lakewood is only one among many) for not diving “deep enough” into scriptural teaching. But I can't really. I know too many people in prosperity-gospel churches who can, in the face of tragedy, look to the Heavens and joyfully sing "It is well with my soul" to their totally sovereign God. It took Calvinism and a Southern Baptist fellowship and rigorous theological study to get me to this place of maturity. But that was God's plan for MY walk with Him, which isn't His plan for everyone. There are many mature people at Lakewood who love God with all their hearts and truly "get" how to suffer well. They understand sin and the true gospel. How is this possible? I think that's the mystery. I think we try so hard to do God's business, and we aren't the Holy Spirit. We are mere messengers, and it seems to only take a very small step towards God (even an incomplete and misguided one) to find Him flying towards us with His mighty, outstretched hands. Who are we to say how people must surely feel or think based on the flavor of church they go to? I've learned that church flavor and personal maturity do not really seem to coincide all that much. If the proof is in the pudding (concerning how loving and obedient a congregation is), then many theologically "deep" churches could learn a thing or two from Lakewood. I was so loved there, and it is where God found me, beneath the TV lights and all. He found me and brought me back to His table via the ministry of that church. The truth (even small portions of it) works. So my conclusion is that there may be many right words for Osteen, but I don’t think Heretic is one of them. ~Just my thoughts, Chris I think you’re right Jeremy. It is a weighty word that is often emotionally charged and used negatively. It seems to be the next best thing to cussing for those who regard themselves as authorities on religion.

But the argument here is going to be over what, exactly, the body of Christ should be divided over. Some would say Osteen is THAT dangerous and is, therefore, a heretic.

Well? I used to go to Lakewood, and before that I spent my life growing up in other charismatic, non-denominational, word-of-faith churches. So I’d love to share my thoughts. I hope that’s ok.

I have personally experienced the disastrous effects of only hearing a partial message and consequently being rather immature in my theology. One would think that I, of all people, would condemn these kinds of church environments (Lakewood is only one among many) for not diving “deep enough” into scriptural teaching.

But I can’t really. I know too many people in prosperity-gospel churches who can, in the face of tragedy, look to the Heavens and joyfully sing “It is well with my soul” to their totally sovereign God. It took Calvinism and a Southern Baptist fellowship and rigorous theological study to get me to this place of maturity. But that was God’s plan for MY walk with Him, which isn’t His plan for everyone. There are many mature people at Lakewood who love God with all their hearts and truly “get” how to suffer well. They understand sin and the true gospel. How is this possible?

I think that’s the mystery. I think we try so hard to do God’s business, and we aren’t the Holy Spirit. We are mere messengers, and it seems to only take a very small step towards God (even an incomplete and misguided one) to find Him flying towards us with His mighty, outstretched hands.

Who are we to say how people must surely feel or think based on the flavor of church they go to? I’ve learned that church flavor and personal maturity do not really seem to coincide all that much. If the proof is in the pudding (concerning how loving and obedient a congregation is), then many theologically “deep” churches could learn a thing or two from Lakewood. I was so loved there, and it is where God found me, beneath the TV lights and all. He found me and brought me back to His table via the ministry of that church.

The truth (even small portions of it) works. So my conclusion is that there may be many right words for Osteen, but I don’t think Heretic is one of them.

~Just my thoughts,
Chris

]]> By: Jesus The Radical Pastor » Blog Archive » JESUS: THE FIRST EMERGENT LEADER http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic/comment-page-1#comment-17134 Jesus The Radical Pastor » Blog Archive » JESUS: THE FIRST EMERGENT LEADER Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:31:33 +0000 http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic#comment-17134 [...] conditions people to see life, they are railed upon as departing from the faith. As my friend, Jeremy Bouma, writes: the use of the term “heretic” is wrongly pinned on [...] [...] conditions people to see life, they are railed upon as departing from the faith. As my friend, Jeremy Bouma, writes: the use of the term “heretic” is wrongly pinned on [...]

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic/comment-page-1#comment-17104 Jeremy Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:27:40 +0000 http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic#comment-17104 Glad you appreciated it, Maria! It's been brewing in me for a bit and I just had to let it out, though I was more restrained than I wanted to be :) My hope is that we as a Jesus Family would be more restrained in painting people with this heavy word, and more quick to listen and dialogue...here's to hoping! -jeremy Glad you appreciated it, Maria! It’s been brewing in me for a bit and I just had to let it out, though I was more restrained than I wanted to be :) My hope is that we as a Jesus Family would be more restrained in painting people with this heavy word, and more quick to listen and dialogue…here’s to hoping!

-jeremy

]]> By: maria http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic/comment-page-1#comment-17101 maria Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:11:43 +0000 http://www.novuslumen.net/the-casual-use-of-heretic#comment-17101 thanks for writing this. thanks for writing this.

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